Talk:Pashtuns

Edits to religion in the infobox

The current religion section in the infobox includes Shias, Sikhs, and Hindus as Pashtun minorities. The supposed Hindu Pashtuns seem to be an isolated group of a few people who live in India, while the Sikh Pashtuns seem to be a few hundred people in Pakistan. Neither of these groups warrant inclusion in the infobox, as including them presents a misleading image of these groups being significant minorities among Pashtuns. You can find small groups of any religion among most ethnic groups. To compare to other groups - Kazakhs have about 40k Christians according to their Wiki page (a much greater proportion compared to the proportions of Sikhs/Hindu Pashtuns), yet their infobox simply says "predominantly Islam" for religion. Tajiks have 2,600 Christians according to their Wiki page, but the religion infobox lists only Sunni and Shia Islam. Uzbeks have 7k Zoroastrians, but the infobox simply lists "predominantly Sunni Islam".

That said, these groups are notable enough to remain in the article in the religion section, though not in the infobox. I propose changing the infobox to simply list "predominantly Islam", which covers probably about 99.99% of Pashtuns. PatriarchMacbeth (talk) 15:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Sourced material removing reasons

@Noorullah21: Dear user, now you express your logical and reasonable reasons regarding the removal of sourced material in the article. Thank you! Nooritahir734 (talk) 05:13, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

@Nooritahir734 As I said, any further reverts would see an ANI report against you, which has been done. It was up to you to discuss your edits a long time ago per WP:ONUS.

Britannica is not WP:RS. Noorullah (talk) 05:32, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

@Noorullah21:

You shouldn't have done that, you should have discuss, and if I acted against the consensus, then you could have filed a complaint at ANI, not now. Before that I said that I will discuss on the talk page and I came to a more definite conclusion and reach a consensus and until you do not have a better source than Britannica, sources and materials should not be removed.

And I shouldn't stop editing, which is reasonable and legal by your faulty warning (any further reverts would see an ANI report against you). I have the same right to edit as you do and you should not behave like an administrator. Thank you! Nooritahir734 (talk) 08:16, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

“You shouldn't have done that, you should have discuss, and if I acted against the consensus, then you could have filed a complaint at ANI, not now”

He had every right to revert you and take this to ANI when you didn’t stop edit warring. Per WP:ONUS, the burden is on you to attain consensus. You were supposed to cease from reverting to your preferred edit and take this to the talk page.

“The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content.”

Wikipedia:Verifiability#Verifiability does not guarantee inclusion

That means you in this case. Your trying to add content that got disputed by another editor, which means YOU have to build consensus, not Noorullah

“ Before that I said that I will discuss on the talk page and I came to a more definite conclusion and reach a consensus and until you do not have a better source than Britannica, sources and materials should not be removed.”

Respectfully, It doesn’t seem that you have a good grasp on how consensus works. You can’t just declare consensus because you think you’re right. You need to actually build it by discussing with the community.

So far you’ve been reverted by multiple editors, and nobody has come forward to support your position. That means you are far from reaching consensus.

For now you need to refrain from reverting and attempt to gain consensus through discussion here in the talk page. Someguywhosbored (talk) 09:25, 5 October 2024 (UTC)

Kushan not sakas

The description of fall of the greko bactrians are for yuezhi tribes which strapo mistook for sakas. You can furthur read on yuezhi and kushan empire pages. This is an important mistake that should be fixed. 178.232.246.100 (talk) 15:08, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Regarding the 1964 identity change

Hi all, I was reading the intro section and read this section "They historically were also referred to as Afghans until 1964 after the term's meaning had become a demonym for members of all ethnic groups in Afghanistan"

This part seems strange to me. They were Ethnic Afghans in 1963 and lost that identity in 1964? Did no Pashtun outside of Afghanistan call themself Afghan after 1964? Are there any other cases of an ethnicities identity changing in the space of a year? 2A02:C7C:640:9F00:D07A:203:BB7A:F178 (talk) 12:55, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Subject: Discussion and Suggested Improvements for the Article on Pashtuns

Dear Wikipedia Editors and Administrators,

I hope this message finds you well. I am a native Pashtun, and after reviewing the article on Pashtuns, I would like to offer a few suggestions for expanding and refining certain sections to ensure the content is comprehensive, culturally accurate, and reflects the diversity of Pashtun history and society. Below are some key points I would like to discuss:

1. Pashtunwali - Expansion of the Code of Life:
   • The article briefly mentions Pashtunwali, but I believe it could benefit from a more detailed explanation of the full set of codes that govern Pashtun society. Specifically, Pashtunwali includes 20 distinct principles, such as hospitality (Melmastia) and justice (Badal), that play a crucial role in the daily lives of Pashtuns.
   • Additionally, it would be valuable to discuss how Pashtunwali is applied today, especially within the Pashtun diaspora, and how it remains a key part of Pashtun identity. This could help modernize the article and provide a better understanding of Pashtun society's values.
   • Sources: There are numerous works by anthropologists and cultural historians that document these codes and their modern application.
2. Genetic and Ancestral Origins:
   • The origins of the Pashtun people are often debated, and genetic studies suggest a complex heritage that combines influences from various ethnicities, including Turkic, Israelite, and Greek. While the exact proportions may vary by tribe, all Pashtun communities share certain genetic and ancestral markers.
   • More specifically, Pashtuns are believed to have a significant historical, ancestral and genetical connection to Turkic origins and Turkic-speaking groups, particularly those from the Kipchak branch of the Turkic peoples. This group includes various Turkic tribes that once lived in Central Asia, and they migrated into the regions now inhabited by Pashtuns over centuries.
   • I believe this aspect of Pashtun identity could be expanded to reflect the rich, multifaceted nature of their origins, though I understand this may be a contentious topic and require careful sourcing.
   • Sources: There are genetic studies available (e.g., studies on the Y-chromosome and mtDNA) that provide insights into the ancestral roots of Pashtun tribes, as well as historical records that discuss Turkic migration patterns:
3. Linguistic Roots of Pashto:
   • Pashto, the language spoken by Pashtuns, has evolved over centuries, and while it is primarily Indo-Iranian, it has absorbed influences from Persian, Arabic, and even Turkic languages. I believe a more in-depth explanation of these linguistic influences would enhance the article's clarity regarding the development of Pashto.
   • Sources: Academic papers and books on the Indo-Iranian language family and its evolution would be helpful to support this point.
4. Pashtun Homeland Beyond Afghanistan and Pakistan:
   • Pashtuns have historically lived beyond the borders of Afghanistan and Pakistan, with significant communities in regions like Iran, India, Central Asia, and the Caucasus. These movements have occurred over centuries due to trade, migration, and conquest (from the time of Alexander the Great to the Soviet occupation).
   • I suggest that the article acknowledges this broader historical context, which would reflect the historical and cultural significance of the Pashtun diaspora.
   • Sources: Historical migration patterns and the presence of Pashtun communities in these regions are well-documented in various sources on South Asian history and anthropology.

I would like to request that these points be considered for discussion and potential incorporation into the article. I understand that some of these topics may require additional verification or discussion, and I am happy to provide any further information or sources to support these suggestions.

Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to engaging in a constructive dialogue to improve this article and ensure it accurately represents the Pashtun community's history, culture, and linguistic heritage.

Best regards,

Fahad Hafeez Fahadhafeez23 (talk) 03:00, 27 March 2025 (UTC)